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	<title>Comments on: Alter one molecule, go to Hell</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/03/18/alter-one-molecule-go-to-hell/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/03/18/alter-one-molecule-go-to-hell/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 11:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Blaidd Drwg</title>
		<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/03/18/alter-one-molecule-go-to-hell/#comment-389</link>
		<dc:creator>Blaidd Drwg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/03/18/alter-one-molecule-go-to-hell/#comment-389</guid>
		<description>In a rather ironic and disgusting quote from the article:

"The archbishop brushed off cases of sexual violence against minors committed by priests as "exaggerations by the mass media aimed at discrediting the Church".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a rather ironic and disgusting quote from the article:</p>
<p>&#8220;The archbishop brushed off cases of sexual violence against minors committed by priests as &#8220;exaggerations by the mass media aimed at discrediting the Church&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: blue collar scientist</title>
		<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/03/18/alter-one-molecule-go-to-hell/#comment-363</link>
		<dc:creator>blue collar scientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/03/18/alter-one-molecule-go-to-hell/#comment-363</guid>
		<description>Julia,

Well, if you want an extra 21st chromosome, go for it! Just be aware that the Catholic Church says the technician who gives it to you will go to Hell. It cuts both ways like that, I guess.

But I really must disagree with your assertion that people with Downs syndrome do not suffer considerably, even on average. I've known seven people with Downs syndrome in my lifetime, some of them fairly well. Several are unable to speak, because their mouths are too small relative to the hardware (teeth, tongue) that must fit inside there. Although they can hear and understand speech, they are unable to speak clearly enough to be generally understood. As a consequence, they encounter severe social misunderstanding and ostracization.

Both those who are unable to speak, and those who are, were subjected to the lengthy and difficult ministrations of a speech and language pathologist. Which may not be so very bad, but is by no means considered to be painless by most of those who have had such experiences.

Two had to have repeated painful dental surgeries to remove teeth as they were growing, for which there was no room in the undersized mouth, and to change the configuration of bone in the jaw.

Four or five have or have had gastroesophogeal reflux disease, due to to the way the stomach and esophagus develop in Downs syndrome. This is not a pleasant condition to have.

All but one (as far as I know) has had obstructive sleep apnea, a consequence of the oral and sinus deformities that are common in Downs syndrome. Both apnea and sleep deprivation are, apparently, currently in use by the United States in torturing suspected terrorists, so I'd say there must be some suffering involved there.

All of the adults have faced considerable discrimination in getting a job. One experienced periods of extreme poverty during times of unemployment.

Two suffered lingering, painful deaths due to the congenital heart defects that are common with Downs syndrome.

Whilst all of these friends were very cheerful and loving - in fact, more so than the average "normal," making them, to my mind, far better people than many I have known - and while all had personalities and interests that were interesting to me, it would nevertheless be shockingly callous to say they had not suffered considerably from their condition. Each of them (except the four-year old daughter of one of my best friends, who is shy with me) has frankly told me in which ways they suffer, and how much they abhor it. And to say that those who endured for years with the wracking chest pain of a heart condition, slowly getting worse and worse, until eventually they die - well, not acknowledging their suffering is dismissive of the people who experienced it.

While I recognize anyone can lead a fulfilling, happy life, and while I see that these people I know have, and are, I choose not to disrespect the experience of these friends by denying an important part of what made them the people they are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julia,</p>
<p>Well, if you want an extra 21st chromosome, go for it! Just be aware that the Catholic Church says the technician who gives it to you will go to Hell. It cuts both ways like that, I guess.</p>
<p>But I really must disagree with your assertion that people with Downs syndrome do not suffer considerably, even on average. I&#8217;ve known seven people with Downs syndrome in my lifetime, some of them fairly well. Several are unable to speak, because their mouths are too small relative to the hardware (teeth, tongue) that must fit inside there. Although they can hear and understand speech, they are unable to speak clearly enough to be generally understood. As a consequence, they encounter severe social misunderstanding and ostracization.</p>
<p>Both those who are unable to speak, and those who are, were subjected to the lengthy and difficult ministrations of a speech and language pathologist. Which may not be so very bad, but is by no means considered to be painless by most of those who have had such experiences.</p>
<p>Two had to have repeated painful dental surgeries to remove teeth as they were growing, for which there was no room in the undersized mouth, and to change the configuration of bone in the jaw.</p>
<p>Four or five have or have had gastroesophogeal reflux disease, due to to the way the stomach and esophagus develop in Downs syndrome. This is not a pleasant condition to have.</p>
<p>All but one (as far as I know) has had obstructive sleep apnea, a consequence of the oral and sinus deformities that are common in Downs syndrome. Both apnea and sleep deprivation are, apparently, currently in use by the United States in torturing suspected terrorists, so I&#8217;d say there must be some suffering involved there.</p>
<p>All of the adults have faced considerable discrimination in getting a job. One experienced periods of extreme poverty during times of unemployment.</p>
<p>Two suffered lingering, painful deaths due to the congenital heart defects that are common with Downs syndrome.</p>
<p>Whilst all of these friends were very cheerful and loving - in fact, more so than the average &#8220;normal,&#8221; making them, to my mind, far better people than many I have known - and while all had personalities and interests that were interesting to me, it would nevertheless be shockingly callous to say they had not suffered considerably from their condition. Each of them (except the four-year old daughter of one of my best friends, who is shy with me) has frankly told me in which ways they suffer, and how much they abhor it. And to say that those who endured for years with the wracking chest pain of a heart condition, slowly getting worse and worse, until eventually they die - well, not acknowledging their suffering is dismissive of the people who experienced it.</p>
<p>While I recognize anyone can lead a fulfilling, happy life, and while I see that these people I know have, and are, I choose not to disrespect the experience of these friends by denying an important part of what made them the people they are.</p>
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		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/03/18/alter-one-molecule-go-to-hell/#comment-361</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:34:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Puhlease!  Folks with Tri 21 do NOT have "considerable suffering".  In fact, they probably suffer at a rate significantly lower than "normal" people.  Maybe you should ponder a way to give us all an extra 21st!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Puhlease!  Folks with Tri 21 do NOT have &#8220;considerable suffering&#8221;.  In fact, they probably suffer at a rate significantly lower than &#8220;normal&#8221; people.  Maybe you should ponder a way to give us all an extra 21st!</p>
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		<title>By: Zach Miller</title>
		<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/03/18/alter-one-molecule-go-to-hell/#comment-360</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/03/18/alter-one-molecule-go-to-hell/#comment-360</guid>
		<description>This whole process has been difficult to watch unfold. And you're right--most of the blogosphere coverage has just been kind of "from the ivory tower," as it were, with lots of head-shaking and sighing.

But it really is more serious than that. The Church continues to ignorantly condemn science for no good reason. Sometimes I think they just like bringing controversy to the table, to continue the war on science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole process has been difficult to watch unfold. And you&#8217;re right&#8211;most of the blogosphere coverage has just been kind of &#8220;from the ivory tower,&#8221; as it were, with lots of head-shaking and sighing.</p>
<p>But it really is more serious than that. The Church continues to ignorantly condemn science for no good reason. Sometimes I think they just like bringing controversy to the table, to continue the war on science.</p>
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