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	<title>Comments on: So, what do we do about this?</title>
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	<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/04/23/so-what-do-we-do-about-this/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Scott Elyard</title>
		<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/04/23/so-what-do-we-do-about-this/#comment-1254</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Elyard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluecollarscientist.com/?p=358#comment-1254</guid>
		<description>I'm not against a packet, but to echo BW022's comment somewhat, it should be agnostic of Expelled, which is verging on being utterly irrelevant at this point.

Otherwise, such inclusion will date itself very badly.  If the structure of the document just sort of &lt;i&gt;happens&lt;/i&gt; to follow the outline of Expelled, that's all that's necessary, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not against a packet, but to echo BW022&#8217;s comment somewhat, it should be agnostic of Expelled, which is verging on being utterly irrelevant at this point.</p>
<p>Otherwise, such inclusion will date itself very badly.  If the structure of the document just sort of <i>happens</i> to follow the outline of Expelled, that&#8217;s all that&#8217;s necessary, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Spiv</title>
		<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/04/23/so-what-do-we-do-about-this/#comment-1243</link>
		<dc:creator>Spiv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluecollarscientist.com/?p=358#comment-1243</guid>
		<description>I agree on the packet idea, but let's make sure we keep it simple enough to be noticed, and then provide links for people who are interested in actually getting things answered.

Examples:
Peer reviewed research supporting evolution; paleontology: a bajillion, cellular biology: 1.5 bajillion, embryology: big number again, genetics: the national deficit.

Peer reviewed research supporting ID; paleo: 0, cellular: 0, embryo: 0, genetics: 1, in process of being retracted for not actually having research of any kind in it.

Point out that this was one of the major flops in the dover trial as well.

link to best discussion of creo/id talking points vs. science: talkorigins.org

That's my take, anyway. I too see it getting pushed at school boards and legislators, but that's nothing new. I'd also be all for "teaching the controversy" if it meant the "controversy" was laid out with facts. Course, that's the opposite of what the creo/id crowd wants: they want fact stuck next to speculation as though they were equal, and then hope their romanticism takes the trophy. What we need to do is teach the controversy, as in show the facts, including of course the part where the lying creeps make stuff up about fishing lures and mousetraps to push their fact-free agenda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree on the packet idea, but let&#8217;s make sure we keep it simple enough to be noticed, and then provide links for people who are interested in actually getting things answered.</p>
<p>Examples:<br />
Peer reviewed research supporting evolution; paleontology: a bajillion, cellular biology: 1.5 bajillion, embryology: big number again, genetics: the national deficit.</p>
<p>Peer reviewed research supporting ID; paleo: 0, cellular: 0, embryo: 0, genetics: 1, in process of being retracted for not actually having research of any kind in it.</p>
<p>Point out that this was one of the major flops in the dover trial as well.</p>
<p>link to best discussion of creo/id talking points vs. science: talkorigins.org</p>
<p>That&#8217;s my take, anyway. I too see it getting pushed at school boards and legislators, but that&#8217;s nothing new. I&#8217;d also be all for &#8220;teaching the controversy&#8221; if it meant the &#8220;controversy&#8221; was laid out with facts. Course, that&#8217;s the opposite of what the creo/id crowd wants: they want fact stuck next to speculation as though they were equal, and then hope their romanticism takes the trophy. What we need to do is teach the controversy, as in show the facts, including of course the part where the lying creeps make stuff up about fishing lures and mousetraps to push their fact-free agenda.</p>
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		<title>By: BW022</title>
		<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/04/23/so-what-do-we-do-about-this/#comment-1232</link>
		<dc:creator>BW022</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluecollarscientist.com/?p=358#comment-1232</guid>
		<description>Nothing.

If Expelled has box office receipts of $3 million, and a ticket is $10, that is only 300,000 people who might see it? Over it's run that might be say 3 million people who see it? There are approximately 300 million Americans and about 250 million are Christian, and about 50 million are literalist Southern Baptists. Are we really worried that any significant number of non-fundamentalists are a) going to the film, b) buying any of this, c) wouldn't be duped by scam, or d) being all a,b, and c have the ability to effect any real change? In other words, this film will do little other than get a rise from those who already believe this nonsense.

As for what the "pumped up" creationists might do... they could do the same things without the film. The responses to those actions would be the same. Sue folks trying to get ID into schools. Fire teachers trying to teach the non-approved topics. Introduce any state/school with "accidemic freedom" laws to the FSM, stolk theory, etc. until their schools become a laughing stolk. Stop sending research grants to any university which allows discussion of untenable theories. etc., etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing.</p>
<p>If Expelled has box office receipts of $3 million, and a ticket is $10, that is only 300,000 people who might see it? Over it&#8217;s run that might be say 3 million people who see it? There are approximately 300 million Americans and about 250 million are Christian, and about 50 million are literalist Southern Baptists. Are we really worried that any significant number of non-fundamentalists are a) going to the film, b) buying any of this, c) wouldn&#8217;t be duped by scam, or d) being all a,b, and c have the ability to effect any real change? In other words, this film will do little other than get a rise from those who already believe this nonsense.</p>
<p>As for what the &#8220;pumped up&#8221; creationists might do&#8230; they could do the same things without the film. The responses to those actions would be the same. Sue folks trying to get ID into schools. Fire teachers trying to teach the non-approved topics. Introduce any state/school with &#8220;accidemic freedom&#8221; laws to the FSM, stolk theory, etc. until their schools become a laughing stolk. Stop sending research grants to any university which allows discussion of untenable theories. etc., etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Grumpy</title>
		<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/04/23/so-what-do-we-do-about-this/#comment-1224</link>
		<dc:creator>Grumpy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 01:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluecollarscientist.com/?p=358#comment-1224</guid>
		<description>It goes without saying, but Expelled and Incovenient Truth are not the same type of movie. Inconvenient Truth is a lesson in itself (with additional scenes to explain why Al Gore is passionate about the topic), so it's more useful to screen the movie than to rehash its information. Expelled is (so I've heard) alarmingly information-free. Even if it successfully argued that ID was academically legitimate, it doesn't contain any information about ID.

If Expelled is intended as a condensed presentation on the problems with evolution, that purpose is diffused by its focus on academic politics and other side-issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It goes without saying, but Expelled and Incovenient Truth are not the same type of movie. Inconvenient Truth is a lesson in itself (with additional scenes to explain why Al Gore is passionate about the topic), so it&#8217;s more useful to screen the movie than to rehash its information. Expelled is (so I&#8217;ve heard) alarmingly information-free. Even if it successfully argued that ID was academically legitimate, it doesn&#8217;t contain any information about ID.</p>
<p>If Expelled is intended as a condensed presentation on the problems with evolution, that purpose is diffused by its focus on academic politics and other side-issues.</p>
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		<title>By: Zach Miller</title>
		<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/04/23/so-what-do-we-do-about-this/#comment-1217</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluecollarscientist.com/?p=358#comment-1217</guid>
		<description>If such an event does occur, I think an information packet would be very helpful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If such an event does occur, I think an information packet would be very helpful.</p>
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		<title>By: Blake Stacey</title>
		<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/04/23/so-what-do-we-do-about-this/#comment-1216</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake Stacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluecollarscientist.com/?p=358#comment-1216</guid>
		<description>I like the idea.  (Better to be prepared, anyway.)  I think that in order to be effective and useful, the resource kit should include videos.  These would not have to be terribly expensive, and they could be distributed over the Net, perhaps in parallel with other methods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the idea.  (Better to be prepared, anyway.)  I think that in order to be effective and useful, the resource kit should include videos.  These would not have to be terribly expensive, and they could be distributed over the Net, perhaps in parallel with other methods.</p>
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