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	<title>Comments on: More Chris Mooney Weirdness</title>
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	<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/05/13/more-chris-mooney-weirdness/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Blake Stacey</title>
		<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/05/13/more-chris-mooney-weirdness/#comment-1868</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake Stacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 17:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluecollarscientist.com/?p=415#comment-1868</guid>
		<description>Does it bother anybody that the Framists seem to have the ear of large pro-science organizations, as witnessed for example by the AAAS panel, "Communicating Science in a Religious America"?  My immediate reaction to that was &lt;a href="http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/02/a_familiar_pattern.php" rel="nofollow"&gt;much the same as P-Zed's&lt;/a&gt;; might Framism be a corrupting influence, I worried, reducing the regard a scientific organization holds for the truth?  Or, is it all just the natural activities of "communication experts", who spend their time organizing panels and giving speeches while their critics &#8212; biologists, physicists, educators &#8212; are busy doing their own work, their noses to their own grindstones?

Ironically, it was Randy Olson who made the snarky remark,

&lt;blockquote&gt;To counter the blockbuster power of “Expelled,” the National Science Foundation, NAS and AAAS are organizing a panel discussion about putting together a committee to look into the possibility of creating a brochure that tells the public how to make a website for a petition that says evolution is fun.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Is this where the Framists' antics will naturally lead &#8212; panel discussions of people sitting around agreeing with each other, NAS books which take the same conciliatory tone they already do, and no real change?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does it bother anybody that the Framists seem to have the ear of large pro-science organizations, as witnessed for example by the AAAS panel, &#8220;Communicating Science in a Religious America&#8221;?  My immediate reaction to that was <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/02/a_familiar_pattern.php" rel="nofollow">much the same as P-Zed&#8217;s</a>; might Framism be a corrupting influence, I worried, reducing the regard a scientific organization holds for the truth?  Or, is it all just the natural activities of &#8220;communication experts&#8221;, who spend their time organizing panels and giving speeches while their critics &mdash; biologists, physicists, educators &mdash; are busy doing their own work, their noses to their own grindstones?</p>
<p>Ironically, it was Randy Olson who made the snarky remark,</p>
<blockquote><p>To counter the blockbuster power of “Expelled,” the National Science Foundation, NAS and AAAS are organizing a panel discussion about putting together a committee to look into the possibility of creating a brochure that tells the public how to make a website for a petition that says evolution is fun.</p></blockquote>
<p>Is this where the Framists&#8217; antics will naturally lead &mdash; panel discussions of people sitting around agreeing with each other, NAS books which take the same conciliatory tone they already do, and no real change?</p>
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		<title>By: SLC</title>
		<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/05/13/more-chris-mooney-weirdness/#comment-1862</link>
		<dc:creator>SLC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 12:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluecollarscientist.com/?p=415#comment-1862</guid>
		<description>I was not able to find the post in question.  However, I distinctly recall that Mr. Mooney definitely stated that he did not agree with Prof. Nisbets' statement that Dawkins and Myers should shut up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was not able to find the post in question.  However, I distinctly recall that Mr. Mooney definitely stated that he did not agree with Prof. Nisbets&#8217; statement that Dawkins and Myers should shut up.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Ameche</title>
		<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/05/13/more-chris-mooney-weirdness/#comment-1861</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Ameche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 10:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluecollarscientist.com/?p=415#comment-1861</guid>
		<description>I agree that Mooney seemed to very strongly defend Nisbet, to the point of repeatedly asserting that Nisbet's key points were true and that PZ and Dawkins were harmful to science communication. It gave the appearance that Mooney had irrevocably hitched his wagon to Nisbet's train (shall we call it the Templeton Prize Express?), and it would surprise me to find that Mooney suddenly disagrees with Nisbet over such a short time.

Whatever the case, if you've been following BCS' treatment of framing, the central point is this: The framists offer no constructive or consistent advice to science communicators. That's what we see here.

I'd say BCS is doing as much as Mooney is to communicate science, given BCS' school activities; I'd say he has a damn good technical education about communications, and having seen him work, I'd say he does an outstanding job communicating science to sometimes-hostile audiences. But that doesn't matter to the framists; to them, everyone else is just doing it wrong, and they lord their supposed expert status over everyone else so they can attack people doing good work. But they never give useful advice, and don't seem to say anything consistent about how to do the job that BCS is doing very well. It's all just "doing it that way is wrong," seemingly never do we hear "here's an effective way to communicate this point: .....

&lt;i&gt;That&lt;/i&gt; point remains. Mooney has said don't ridicule ridiculous people; here he says ridicule them. Science communicators would be better off if he did more thinking and less talking for a while.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that Mooney seemed to very strongly defend Nisbet, to the point of repeatedly asserting that Nisbet&#8217;s key points were true and that PZ and Dawkins were harmful to science communication. It gave the appearance that Mooney had irrevocably hitched his wagon to Nisbet&#8217;s train (shall we call it the Templeton Prize Express?), and it would surprise me to find that Mooney suddenly disagrees with Nisbet over such a short time.</p>
<p>Whatever the case, if you&#8217;ve been following BCS&#8217; treatment of framing, the central point is this: The framists offer no constructive or consistent advice to science communicators. That&#8217;s what we see here.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say BCS is doing as much as Mooney is to communicate science, given BCS&#8217; school activities; I&#8217;d say he has a damn good technical education about communications, and having seen him work, I&#8217;d say he does an outstanding job communicating science to sometimes-hostile audiences. But that doesn&#8217;t matter to the framists; to them, everyone else is just doing it wrong, and they lord their supposed expert status over everyone else so they can attack people doing good work. But they never give useful advice, and don&#8217;t seem to say anything consistent about how to do the job that BCS is doing very well. It&#8217;s all just &#8220;doing it that way is wrong,&#8221; seemingly never do we hear &#8220;here&#8217;s an effective way to communicate this point: &#8230;..</p>
<p><i>That</i> point remains. Mooney has said don&#8217;t ridicule ridiculous people; here he says ridicule them. Science communicators would be better off if he did more thinking and less talking for a while.</p>
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		<title>By: blue collar scientist</title>
		<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/05/13/more-chris-mooney-weirdness/#comment-1856</link>
		<dc:creator>blue collar scientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 23:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluecollarscientist.com/?p=415#comment-1856</guid>
		<description>SLC, thanks for bringing this up to date. Do you have a link that establishes Mooney's revised opinion?

I say "revised" because, although I know perfectly well it was Nisbet who made the statement, for a week or two afterwards Mooney was his staunch defender. After I'd had quite enough of that, I quit reading his blog, so it is certainly possible he's clarified or changed his opinion. I couldn't find anything by quickly scanning through a few weeks of entries, but if someone posts a link, I'll revise the post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SLC, thanks for bringing this up to date. Do you have a link that establishes Mooney&#8217;s revised opinion?</p>
<p>I say &#8220;revised&#8221; because, although I know perfectly well it was Nisbet who made the statement, for a week or two afterwards Mooney was his staunch defender. After I&#8217;d had quite enough of that, I quit reading his blog, so it is certainly possible he&#8217;s clarified or changed his opinion. I couldn&#8217;t find anything by quickly scanning through a few weeks of entries, but if someone posts a link, I&#8217;ll revise the post.</p>
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		<title>By: SLC</title>
		<link>http://bluecollarscientist.com/2008/05/13/more-chris-mooney-weirdness/#comment-1838</link>
		<dc:creator>SLC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 14:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluecollarscientist.com/?p=415#comment-1838</guid>
		<description>Let's be fair about this.  It wasn't Mr. Mooney who suggested that Dawkins, et all shut up.  It was His pal, Prof. Nisbet.  Mr. Mooney has since stated that he is not in accord with Prof. Nisbets' suggestion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s be fair about this.  It wasn&#8217;t Mr. Mooney who suggested that Dawkins, et all shut up.  It was His pal, Prof. Nisbet.  Mr. Mooney has since stated that he is not in accord with Prof. Nisbets&#8217; suggestion.</p>
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